Dragon Discussion V2 (2024)

So about a week later these are my opinions on dragon and what's wrong with it.

Overall: The class is extremely **** without the fire sword and a very strong tank with it. This is not supposed to be the identity of the class.

Ability

• Buff the hitbox significantly
• 8/4 EPH -> 10/10 EPH
• Give 1 eps
• Reduce projectiles from 20-25 over 2 seconds to 10-12 over 1 second damage unchanged. Damage from ability is now considered "fire damage" by dragon's passives
• Set someone on fire every 10 projectiles hit -> first projectile hit sets someone on fire and then every 6th projectile afterwards (projectile 6 & 12)
• Increase fire damage done by 50% for the next 7 seconds (additive with passive.)

Kit

• Diamond helmet prot 1, fire prot 2 -> gold helmet prot 3, fire prot 2, proj prot 2
• Gold boots FF 2, prot 3, fire prot 2 -> diamond boots FF 2, prot 1, fire prot 2
• Power 1 bow -> Power 1 infinity bow
• 64 kit arrows -> 1 kit arrow

Frenzied Flames
This ability is out of place. Dragon is categorized as a high damage class but in reality this + dragon's overall low damage is just turning it into a tank. Dragon is literally on par or worse than sheep without avarice and a A/B tier class with avarice, but as a tank.

• Remove resistance
• 150% of fire damage as healing -> 50% fire damage as healing
• Increases fire damage done by 200%

Hellfire

• 25-20 energy -> 20-15 energy

Dwarven Gold

• Gold is no longer an item it just stacks up as a number in your class hud (the thing above your hp) and isn't lost on death (garbage mechanic).
• Double gold on defensive kill/assist
• 1 gold for every 75(?) damage dealt to any wither
• 5 - Hellfire costs 5 less energy.
• 10 - Scorching breath shoots 2 additional projectiles.
• 15 - Kit sword replaced with avarice.
• 20 - Bow upgraded to power 2.
• 25 - 10/10 eph -> 12/12 eph
• 30 - Gold helm prot 3, fire prot 2, proj prot 2 -> diamond helm prot 1, fire prot 2, proj prot 2

Edit: The later gold numbers could probably be increased and other things could possibly be added. Basically the goal is to have them trigger in dm as luxury upgrades while the upgrades that actually put dragon on the same level as other classes would come early.

Basically the way that a passive like this should be shaped in this kind of game is that the super core upgrades that the class needs to function on a similar level to other classes should be first and come relatively early. Then after that should come deluxe upgrades that you don't necessarily need to function, but are still somewhat noticeable to keep a "scaling" fantasy where you can get a bit stronger if you survive into dm and are actively getting finals. The entire point of this passive should be to get more people to interact with the game pre dm at least a bit rather than handicap you if the game isn't suited to getting 30 k/a pre dm. I can get avarice fairly easily if there's a moshpit or my teammates are fighting other teams or if people don't run. But sometimes games aren't large or some freaks care too much about their normal kd & run around with blocks and arrows pre dm and act like they're starving and won't get their mcdonalds chicken nuggies if they take a non final death. Anyone acting like getting normal kills/assists is a challenge or adds "skill" to the class is, in the most respectful way possible, completely delusional.

babsld said:

yip yap i dont give a flap, its op af and needs a nerf.

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How is it op? The class is really bad without the current Avarice and becomes stupidly uncounterable if you do get it. I agree that Avarice is far from balanced, but without it, you really aren't working with much.

TheOriginalSagi said:

How is it op? The class is really bad without the current Avarice and becomes stupidly uncounterable if you do get it. I agree that Avarice is far from balanced, but without it, you really aren't working with much.

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you just asked "how is it op" then said why it is op in the same post

if you cant get avarice before dm you are really bad at this game and you need to stop complaining about a class being hard

oreobiits said:

you just asked "how is it op" then said why it is op in the same post

if you cant get avarice before dm you are really bad at this game and you need to stop complaining about a class being hard

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I'll correct myself: it becomes op if you dedicate the whole game to getting a stupidly broken item that has no counter. That said, you can't rely on getting it every single game before Deathmatch (maybe you can, but others might not). I hold the opinion that the current Avarice is one of the most broken concepts in the game right now, and if a class relies on one item to become from super awful to utterly unbalanced then there is a problem with its design in the first place.

TheOriginalSagi said:

I'll correct myself: it becomes op if you dedicate the whole game to getting a stupidly broken item that has no counter. That said, you can't rely on getting it every single game before Deathmatch (maybe you can, but others might not). I hold the opinion that the current Avarice is one of the most broken concepts in the game right now, and if a class relies on one item to become from super awful to utterly unbalanced then there is a problem with its design in the first place.

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why do you want everything to be super accessible for bad players lol

oreobiits said:

why do you want everything to be super accessible for bad players lol

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I don't agree with what you said, but if we go with that statement... the GT on Dragon isn't really based off skill, it's just attempting to get kills pre-DM which a lot of the times gets farmed off new players. If it had some sort of strategy involved, maybe I would not want the ability to be more accessible, but with how stupid the last reward is, I think it's healthier to nerf it while making it less of a pain to obtain.

Do you think the current Avarice is balanced?

TheOriginalSagi said:

I don't agree with what you said, but if we go with that statement... the GT on Dragon isn't really based off skill, it's just attempting to get kills pre-DM which a lot of the times gets farmed off new players. If it had some sort of strategy involved, maybe I would not want the ability to be more accessible, but with how stupid the last reward is, I think it's healthier to nerf it while making it less of a pain to obtain.

Do you think the current Avarice is balanced?

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I get 35 ka pre dm as phoenix every game so i dont see your issue

babsld said:

I get 35 ka pre dm as phoenix every game so i dont see your issue

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I probably say this because I spend most game defending so I don't get to see the full picture. The point of Avarice being way too strong and needs to be tuned down as it is breaking balance remains and I think we can all agree on that.

TheOriginalSagi said:

I probably say this because I spend most game defending so I don't get to see the full picture. The point of Avarice being way too strong and needs to be tuned down as it is breaking balance remains and I think we can all agree on that.

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you're supposed to get stronger the more gold you get, whats wrong with that, it should be weak without gold

babsld said:

you're supposed to get stronger the more gold you get, whats wrong with that, it should be weak without gold

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Is Avarice really a good balance design though?

Perunwastaken said:

Dont buff dragon armor it already has perm res 1 and lifesteal with advarice

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did u even read the post or what

oreobiits said:

why do you want everything to be super accessible for bad players lol

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not being a real class because my wither gets targeted the majority of games is really good design actually

babsld said:

I get 35 ka pre dm as phoenix every game so i dont see your issue

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phoenix has abilities that work a better bow and gets assists from healing someone once

Tigers_Are_Pro said:

not being a real class because my wither gets targeted the majority of games is really good design actually

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nobody and I mean NOBODY is racing to kill LinkTheTiger's wither. drop the ego.

fras1 said:

nobody and I mean NOBODY is racing to kill LinkTheTiger's wither. drop the ego.

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man how I wish this were true

TheOriginalSagi said:

I don't agree with what you said, but if we go with that statement... the GT on Dragon isn't really based off skill, it's just attempting to get kills pre-DM which a lot of the times gets farmed off new players. If it had some sort of strategy involved, maybe I would not want the ability to be more accessible, but with how stupid the last reward is, I think it's healthier to nerf it while making it less of a pain to obtain.

Do you think the current Avarice is balanced?

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no thats why in my fkn proposal i moved avarice to the main ability and made the final upgrade power 2 u daft ****

oreobiits said:

no thats why in my fkn proposal i moved avarice to the main ability and made the final upgrade power 2 u daft ****

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Thanks, I was supposed to guess that instead of you just showing your proposal.